The Shaver Mystery

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Re: The Shaver Mystery

Post by Ye Admin » Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:57 am

I think it's a weird theory, but at least it's funny. ;-)
Say, did you ever read "King of the Gypsies" by Peter Maas? It became an interesting movie with Eric Roberts and Susan Sarandon. I never saw it for sale on DVD anywhere but it was fairly insightful, even if much of what Steve Bimbo had to say was fabricated.

There was this one film about a musicologist infiltrating a Satra, I think it was called Gadjo Dilo (crazy gadjo). It was interesting too, but I don't know how accurate.

I will say I much prefer the Hollywood version of gypsies to the real thing, as I've found most gypsies on this side of the ocean to live in total abject poverty and I feel sorry for them.

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Re: The Shaver Mystery

Post by onlyonedivision » Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:27 pm

...FUNNY?

I am confused. I don't know what you think is funny about this information.

Most of this is not THEORY, Shaver clearly say it one of his commentaries (will get the name of the particular article and post it ASAP).

No, haven't read KOTG yet. The reason Eric Roberts was cast is simply because he is "ethnic" gypsy.
"Roberts" is fairly common name only among Gypsies. He looks the part, also.

Blue-grey eyes w/ a certain occular defect and reddish/ruddy (very different than native Americans or irish) skin tone and a kind of smarmy demeanor.

He also played a Gypsy gang leader in "the Locator".

The sheer amount of media material featuring, and aimed at Gypsies is disturbing.

This is simply because there is now a vast GYPSY "RAI" (Upper class) that wants to see nothing but their own culture. This will eventually result either in a scenario where all "Gadje" (Normal people) are a permanent unterclass, or are rendered virtually extinct.

You prefer the "Hollywood" Gypsies? I do not know which side of the ocean you are on, but don't believe what you see when it comes to Gypsies...what you saw was only their underclass...or a total scam.

I see you have a reasonably good command of the Romani language.

Are you of Roma ancestry or do you have personal experience with them?

You are correct. Dilo or Dili means "Mad," "retarded", etc. indicates either mental illness or infirmity

....or a Gypsy posing as someone with one of these condictions.

If you are familiar with the american TV series "Saturday Night Live", you may have seen skits with the character played by "Kristen Wiig".....The character is called "Dilly" (this is the american pronunciation of "Dili").

I, personally have a fairly complete understanding or Roma and "Gypsy" culture. I have no genetic or cultural connection with any Roma or "Gypsy" group.

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Re: The Shaver Mystery

Post by aeon » Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:52 am

The only Shaver reference to gypsies I recall was that some of them knew of the caverns and that some of their religious rituals carried out in remote locations in the woods might be related to this knowledge. He made reference to millions of various criminal elements drifting down into the caverns over the centuries. Richard Shaver was very clear how his Mantong language was to be decoded.

Proofs

https://archive.org/details/AmazingStor ... e_dropdown


https://www.de173.com/carlos-miguel-allende-carl-allen/

“There is something in October sets the gypsy blood astir.”

Carl M. Allen 1925-1994

Carl has been described in many books and texts as a wandering “Gypsy.” (also Carl’s mother was referred to as a Gypsy.) Although his lifestyle may conform to the ideals of a Gypsy, he has no real Gypsy heritage in his family.


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/e ... -1.2025536

In one wire tapped conversation released yesterday, Carminati tells his right hand man, Riccardo Bruggia:

“It is all about the Middle Earth theory, mate. You see, up above us are the living and below us are the dead and then there is us, in the middle...and that is a middle world where everybody and everything can meet...”

http://www.ansa.it/english/news/general ... 4d8b6.html


http://www.shavertron.com/teros20.html

"Sometime in 1946, Shaver wrote many footnotes to stories he wrote for AMAZING and FANTASTIC magazines, describing the lives and styles of the Teros in the Elder Cavern World. RSS said that their fashions might be as old as the medieval times when the Conquistadors and the Inquisition spread through the caverns, at the time when Columbus sailed to America."

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Re: The Shaver Mystery

Post by Ye Admin » Thu Dec 20, 2018 4:11 pm

I NEVER watch SNL! It's a waste of time. It hasn't been funny since the late 90's.

I can sing "Loli Pabay" and "Nane Tsocha" but I'm German-Italian, I'm not of Roma ancestry. I think it's really hard to pinpoint that ethnicity. I've seen gypsies in Europe, in Asia, in America and South America and unlike the Jews, they don't look too different from the locals.

Europe aside, the gypsies I saw in India are nearly black. The Kalderash I met in Brazil looked heavily miscegenated. Those seemed to like lying and cheating and they "tell fortunes". I don't know if they really still believe they can tell fortunes or if it's just bujo at this point. But even though they traveled in public transportation to beg for money, they traveled around in Brichkas.

I doubt Eric Roberts is ethnically Roma. I'm proud of him for his attempt to rehab though. I liked him a lot in nearly everything I've ever watched him.

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Re: The Shaver Mystery

Post by onlyonedivision » Fri Dec 21, 2018 4:43 pm

Aeon and YeOlde:

Aeon: it is curious that the word "proofs" appears below your post.

"proofs" is the name of the "nonfiction" article I was trying to remember.

And yes, there are many references to "Gypsies" in Shaver's writings. Especially in "Proofs" and "The Masked World"
Here are a few:

"Proofs" (Pg. 143, AS) 4th paragraphs, he mentions "Gypsies" 4 times. "from "gypsies" under the earth" - Shaver.

"Proofs" (Pg. 144, AS) right-hand column, first 2 paragraphs.

"Cave City of Hel" - Pg. 28 - "Norroway" Norway + RO. I have personally heard local gypsies use this device (in my case "Romunity", "Community + RO")

....and on and on.....

"Masked World" Shaver describes the character of Bonur Golz as having a "Broad red face" bloodshot red skin coloration is the norm in the "Gypsies" that we have met.

"Masked World" (AS pg. 66) 2nd paragraph: "Hex Doctors of Pennsylvania" These are also known as "Shekener" Gypsies. (curiously enough, Ciccone is the Italian equivalent to "Shekener". All "Gypsy" languages are phonetic in nature.

Shaver constantly uses Gypsy puns, like the term "Ray" as if it were a "beam". This is a pun noone ever notices, "Ray", "Rai", or "Rye" are gypsy "Royals". (yes as in "Lorde").

I am of the opinion that the "surface"/"caves" dichotomy is also a pun, but it has been documented that Gypsies often live and have lived in caverns (the spanish Zincali) and in sewers (eastern European Gypsies).

Cont'd...

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Re: The Shaver Mystery

Post by onlyonedivision » Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:17 pm

Cont'd....

Aeon, how do you know that "Carl Allen" has no gypsy ancestry?

The statement about the criminal elements is partially true. In England , in the past when Gypsies first arrived on those shores they began to organize criminal gangs into a powerful "Underworld" organization.

This is what so many don't understand about Gypsies, they methodically insinate themselves into other cultures.
YeAdmin, you are spot-on about them being very capable of "blending in" with other cultures.

As for Shaver dictating "how" Mantong should be viewed, I am sure Shaver and his allies had their own less-than-savory agenda.

...Concerning "Operation Middle Earth"...I don't think you understand what that's about (it was a Italian Sting Operation)

YeAdmin:

I agree with you're assessment about the quality of SNL comedy..But it often "Showcases" "gypsy" culture.

The "Lady Gaga" episode was "gypsified" to a disturbing degree.

It shows the level to which this culture has lowered itself to the level of a "petty underworld" that you feel proud of Eric Roberts for going into rehab over marijuana addiction.

I find it disgusting that a two-bit gyp actor gets rich, while contributing nothing to society. Then screws up his millionaire life...THEN tries to make money on his screw-up.

Every day I see Gypsies and hereditary criminals who make money from one scam or another (from fake beggars to politicians to actors and social media "influencers" (parasites). While normal human beings are more and more relegated to the position of second-class citizens.


The fact that no-one wants to do anything about is just sad.

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Re: The Shaver Mystery

Post by aeon » Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:36 pm

This is claimed by Robert A. Goerman, I certainly don't know.

http://windmill-slayer.tripod.com/aliascarlosallende/

https://www.de173.com/alias-carlos-allende/

'Nine months later, as I write these words, I am reflecting on the many interactions I have had since then with the Allen family. Stepmother, father, brothers and aunt all have been honest and open with me. They have provided documents, correspondence, memories and every possible assistance. But they have asked me to protect their privacy, which is why, when I use their names at all, I do not use their real ones.

“We’re trusting you, Bob,” Harold said. “Don’t make us the target of kooks — or reporters either. I’ll help all I can, but hide my real first name and location. All the publicity could ruin my business.”

The conclusion of the “mystery” is not particularly pleasant. I get no great satisfaction out of revealing that the truth is — in a word — pathetic.

“Were Carlos Allende and his correspondents representatives of an extraterrestrial power which took root on Earth centuries ago and has long since established an advanced underground subculture?” Brad Steiger and Joan Whitenour ask in their New UFO Breakthrough: The Allende Letters (Award Books, 1968). They go on to state, “We do know that an investigator checked out Allende’s Pennsylvania address and found only a vacant farmhouse.”

But William L. Moore, who actually found the elusive Carlos Allende, says in his Philadelphia Experiment, “Although maintaining contact with the man who calls himself Carlos Allende has produced voluminous correspondence, several lengthy telephone conversations and a couple of face-to-face meetings, it is still virtually impossible to say very much about him with any degree of certainty.” Moore devotes an entire chapter and much of the rest of his book to the question, “Just who is Allende really?”

Spaceman? Gypsy? Product of “spontaneous generation?”

Nope. But don’t look in any of the sensational books for the answer. You’ll never find it there because Carlos loves to play games with those foolish enough to play audience.

The prosaic truth, as his family revealed it to me, is as follows:

He was born Carl Meredith Allen at 6:30 a.m. on May 31, 1925, in a house on the corner of Porter and Rosslyn in Springdale, Pennsylvania, the eldest of five children (Frank, Sarah, Donald, Randolph) of an English father and a mother who is part French. Neither parent has any Gypsy blood, despite the eldest son’s claims.'

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Re: The Shaver Mystery

Post by Ye Admin » Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:08 pm

onlyonedivision wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:17 pm
I find it disgusting that a two-bit gyp actor gets rich, while contributing nothing to society. Then screws up his millionaire life...THEN tries to make money on his screw-up.

Every day I see Gypsies and hereditary criminals who make money from one scam or another (from fake beggars to politicians to actors and social media "influencers" (parasites). While normal human beings are more and more relegated to the position of second-class citizens.


The fact that no-one wants to do anything about is just sad.
Well first of all, welcome to the forum. It's nice to have someone new with an interesting opinion, even if I don't necessarily agree with that opinion.

But I see no real evidence that Eric Roberts is a gypsy, or that gypsies run the world. If anything, his downfall would prove him to not be a member of any sort of supreme secret society. I also don't think he's a two-bit actor. Have you seen him in THE POPE OF GREENWICH VILLAGE? His performance in STAR 80 was so effective that the Academy was too creeped out to give him an Oscar. The guy was good! Even his small cameo as the Archangel Michael in that PROPHECY II movie nearly stole the show from Walken. I really disagree that actors automatically contribute nothing to society, I think art is always an important contribution.
There are, of course, actors that are detrimental to society, not because they are actors but because they hold a sort of power that is used in a negative way. To act, you need to be able to live truthfully under imaginary circumstances. Unfortunately a number of actors live in an imaginary world, sheltered from reality by their money, and influence the lives of normal people in a detrimental fashion.

Another thing is, I didn't say that gypsies easily blend into the places they move to, I just meant that they look to be the same race as the people around them. At this point I wonder if "Roma" is more of a culture than an ethnicity.


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Re: The Shaver Mystery

Post by onlyonedivision » Sun Dec 23, 2018 10:18 am

Ye Admin:

You make some good points.

I couldn't agree w/ you more about the question of Roma/Gypsy status. Culture or ethnicity or race (or just a huge petty criminal gang)?

Additionally, I see a slight possibility of a semantic distinction here: The "Gypsy" culture are described in Shaver, The Varo Annotations, etc. ( Hereditary Criminals who often have some "roma" bloodlines ) and "ethnic Roma" who are not particularily involved in organized crime. But that is a very fine line.

This is another concept that is hard to explain, They are not a SUPREME secret society. They simply,slowly interbreed with a culture or nation until they are dominant. Somehow, they just slowly corrupt and dominate other cultures, until that culture becomes them.

There is something about their culture, possibly their language that acts as a form of brainwashing.

Here is some (admittedly not incontravertible) evidence of the (Eric) Roberts family being from within the Gypsy/Roma ethnicity culture; "Roberts" is a very common Welsh Gypsy surname. "Roberts" is also a common Gypsy surname here where I am currently located. Search Google with terms "Roberts Gypsies families" and see what pops up. The Roberts are related to the "Wood" Gypsy clan.


Aeon: Another member of the group that I represent made the mistake of posting at "Conscioushugs".......I hate to be blunt but it is run by (people of doubtful sanity). Followers of some cult-leader type named "Daniel".

There is an anecdote, one of the foundations of my research and that of my group as a whole, that I will share. I can perhaps be dismissed easily by some as coincidence, but only by ignoring the facts.

It is as follows: a small group of "us" with an interest in world mysteries would gather occasionally to exchange ideas, loan books, and otherwise "jaw" about their latest theories. During one of these gatherings, two members went to check the televison news ,while the rest continued to talk...cont'd

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